This incident occurred in the 2900 block of North Hamlin Avenue, around 10:00am on yesterday's date, September 10th. As the story begins, our CAPS member was at home, working on something at their desk, when their dog started barking in the front room. They went to investigate and saw four Polish drunks across the street, drinking vodka out of a half gallon bottle. The vodka came from Bristol's, 3086 North Milwaukee Avenue. Black plastic bag. So, as this is a problem in this part of Avondale, our CAPS member dialed 911 to report it. This 911 call was made at 9:49am.
By 10am, the CPD had not yet shown up to the scene. Later, it was learned that an unmarked car came by, but 911 had given them the wrong information. They thought the four drunks were inside a vacant house on Hamlin (which there are none on that block, by the way, from what I can see) and they were not looking for drunks on the sidewalk. So, at 10:01am, our faithful CAPS member called 911 yet again. They reported the drunks again, and told the dispatcher that they would be going outside to take pictures. On that note, I'll explain why pictures were to be taken. You see, CAPS community members had a meeting on Wednesday Downtown with the LCC (Liquor Control Commission) regarding Bristol's selling to drunks. As part of the meeting, the community members were instructed to take pictures of drunks they see drinking and what not.
Five minutes later, CPD still did not come, and our CAPS member went outside to snap some photos. The drunks noticed the CAPS member, and the CAPS member took their pictures. Here's where the attack happens.
This man, a not-so-much drunk who enables the drinkers on Milwaukee, was out there this morning. The CAPS member and this drunk have had a run-in with each other before. If any of you recall, there was a call for an assault back in August on a Sunday morning around 11:15am at Milwaukee and Avers. This guy, who rides a blue girl's bike, was involved in that assault, and is the one who attacked our CAPS member yesterday. This guy was previously mad because of our CAPS member "bothering" his drunk buddies. The last time, the guy yelled at and got into the face of our CAPS member. But this morning, he was way more intoxicated, which lowered his inhibitions, which caused the attack.The CAPS member backed into the street, snapped this picture and the man lunged for him. He got hold of the CAPS member's arm and tried wrenching the camera out of their hands. He cut himself in the effort. So, then, the CAPS member broke away and the man chased them. This caused a bunch of commotion on the street. People came out of their houses. People who were driving by stopped to look. That was when multiple calls to 911 where made regarding the attack on the street. As soon as that beginned to happen, I'm told the police beginned to pull up quickly. The attacker picked up the blue girl's bicycle he had and was walking it up Hamlin toward Milwaukee. The officers went after him, put him in the car and brought him back to the CAPS member.
The attacker was not too cooperative with CPD. He refused to give his last name to responding officers. He pretended to speak only Polish, when it is known for a fact that he does speak a least a little English. In the long run, thankfully, the attacker was arrested. The charges were drinking on the public way, and battery. The officers said he would be taken to jail but would probably be released in a couple of hours. They said he would be warned to stay away from the CAPS member and this street.
I just wanted to make all of you aware of this incident. Please, be careful, everyone. The streets are NOT safe in this neighborhood. Even from drunks, now. This is upsetting, and B.S., I think. This situation needs to stop, NOW. This cannot go on any longer. I am so outraged hearing about this attack that I can only see red right about now. What do we have to do in order for this B.S. to stop??? Will it take getting seriously injured before someone steps up to stop this, or what?? God forbid that, but someone in power needs to address this, HERE AND NOW. I am honestly really sick and tired of hearing the excuses about why nothing is being done. They are absolutely pathetic at this point. This situation has gotten so bad to where a CAPS member is attacked, for crying out loud! We can't have this happen to any CAPS member. And that goes for all other neighborhoods here in the city. I don't think any situation in any neighborhood has gotten to the point where the criminals try to injure a CAPS member, and I will be damned if it happens here.
I think a formal complaint should be filed with the OEMC (911 Center) because of the seriousness of the situation. Once again, they have endangered yet another citizen's life. I would personally prefer a lawsuit, because of all the incidents in the last few months in either when they constantly give the wrong information to the officers, or where the police aren't sent at all, but they would probably be a bit extreme.
But, on a more serious note, maybe a lawsuit or compliant should be filed with Bristol's, for clearly giving them the liquor in the first place. They are in CLEAR violation of yesterday's meeting. This is a main reason why I am outraged. Also, I am glad that other people called 911 when the attack occurred. That is a really, really good thing. I think it saved the CAPS member from getting physically injured. I for one am thankful that they weren't physically injured by this dangerous man.
Now is the time for us, my fellow community members, I think, to DEMAND action in this neighborhood. I now see a reason to protest to this situation. It has gotten out of control. If these vicious attacks can happen to a CAPS member, only God knows what can happen to a person who just lives in the community. So, it's time to step up. It's time to tell the City of Chicago that we will NOT take this anymore! We will not allow people getting attacked by drunks in front of our own home! It has gotten to the point with me that I think it is time we make some phone calls to the press. I think we need to show the rest of Chicago, and the rest of the oh-so-lovely politics, what is happening in this quadrant of Avondale.
I for one am no longer taking pictures of these guys because of this attack. I honestly am afraid at this point, and I am not willing to be rolled away on a stretcher over this.
Comments or questions? Send them here, or email me them.
Thanks,
Timmy
38 comments:
sorry, timmy, but you are wrong.
your caps member provoked the attack.
you want to snap pics, do it discretely, not right in the guy's face.
you do not have the right to play big brother with a camera.
nor do you have the right to invade a person's privacy by posting their pic on your site without written permission from them.
you appear to be relatively well meaning, but you've got a whole lot to learn about living amongst other human beings.
it's not always about you and what you like and don't like.
and having your own blog doesn't impart to you any greater powers in determining what is right and what is wrong, nor will having a modest following of others bent upon imposing their opinions of what is right or wrong upon the rest of their fellow neighbors.
i will assume that, in your mind, you've never attempted to understand the perspectives of those other human beings whose behaviors are both foreign to you and that you don't like, ie., that you've never tried to imagine walking in another person's shoes.
that would explain your penchant for exaggeration when it comes to petty incidents like this one.
that, and your obviously meager life experience.
there is much to learn, grasshopper, if learning is what you seek.
I don't think I'm wrong. Sorry. Tell these drunks to stop drinking on the public way and ruining the quality of life in our neighborhood. Maybe we wouldn't have to take pictures. And, we may as well let these drunks know we're noticing them. We're not going to let them get away with what they're doing. Do you even live in this part of Avondale? Do you know what they do on a daily basis? Hmmm?? Do you see all of the calls I document of them trespassing into vacant buildings? Do you see that they're passed out on Milwaukee Avenue? If no, then keep your comments to yourself. You don't live in the area. You don't understand it like we do. We're trying to improve this area, and the drunks are not helping. So it's time to take drastic measures to get them out, because obviously the CPD can't do nothing about them. Nobody else besides them even cares.
At what point have I ever said it's about me?? And what do I have to learn?? First off, you don't know my life story. You don't know the hell people put me through years past. There are only a few people here that know my life story, and they will tell you, it was not easy. I've gone through things no one should ever go through. So, after all of these years, my image of many people in this world is that they are cruel, heartless, disrespectful, all of it. For the most part, I don't associate with most people. I'm an outsider. But whoever can win me over with kindness and respect is my friend, and there are not many people like that at all. I'm blessed to have the friends and family I have, and whomever else likes me. For any other people who have been cruel to me over these years, I don't bother with them. Never will, either. It's time for me to move on with my life. I don't have time for them.
I never said this blog gives me powers. I only demand answers from public officials here because I know they're reading. They can't hide forever, because someone's going to call them out. In this area, that's me. If you or anyone else don't like me calling out the powers-to-be, tough. All of you weaklings around here don't do it. You guys are nothing but scared little chickens.
What a wrong, wrong assumption you made of me. Very off. I always try to understand other people's behaviors. If I didn't understand people's behaviors, how come is it that I don't report any of the wrong behaviors the kids I go to school with do? For example, if they disrespect a teacher, it's wrong, but I can understand why it happens. But if you act like a criminal and a thug towards me, I'm judging you on that! That also goes for people who do me wrong on purpose. If people act nasty and cruel to me, and they know what they're saying/doing, I'm calling them out on that. That really goes for people who never apologize or do it on purpose. But if they apologize to me for it, I can accept the apologize and try to understand why they said what they said. Also, there have been times in one place or another, where I've seen people automatically judge someone for no reason. Looking at the person, you could understand why they did the things they did, so I told those people not to judge that person.
Continuing...
This incident is not petty, at all. This CAPS member could have gotten seriously hurt by this drunk ass. This is a battery. And I'm not exaggerating. I'm explaining the incident how I was told about it. Remember, I only write about things people send me. I wasn't on scene of this crime, and I'm not on scene of most crimes in our neighborhood. But what you fail to realize, not only is this a CAPS member to me. They are also a part of this community, and this person is a friend of mine. This is a serious incident, that needs answers right away from our elected officials. They need to tell us why they are allowing this behavior on our streets. Do you realize that this could resulted in someone going to the hospital?? Whether it was the CAPS member, or the drunk, or some bystander just happening to go by, someone could have gotten seriously injured. And none of us should allow for this kind of criminal behavior to keep going on.
I don't think you understand me at all. No, you don't. If you even tried to understand me at any point, you would not have verbally attacked me like you just did. I have a profile on the right of the main page. Read it sometime. Maybe then you will understand why I say the things I say. Oh, who am I kidding? No, not even then you'll understand!
I don't even think you read this post thoroughly. If you did, you would see the CAPS member was taking pictures because they were instructed to at that LCC meeting. Those people need documentation of the drunk behavior in the neighborhood, which includes taking pictures. And, no one's invading their privacy. They're invading ours by doing what they do.
So, anonymous, whoever you are, I'll give you some advice: If you think you can just come on here and disrespect me like that, think again. I don't take that kind of disrespect from anyone. I don't care who you are. So, do me a favor. If you can't understand me, and if you just want to verbally attack me, get off this blog. Seriously. This blog is for the community to be informed of crimes happening in the neighborhood, not for jerks like you to come across and judge me like that. Especially when you don't know me personally.
And, next thing, give your name. Don't be anonymous.
I agree with both of you Timmy and Anonymous. This is not the Northside Uptown were they could hide from there condos and record or take pictures of the thugs this is Logan Square and Avondale way worser neighborhoods than Uptown, Im saying this because i seen a lot of videos gang figths that happen in Uptown but there just running up and down and people make a big deal about it come on, come down to our hood and see what we go thru everyday. The victim actually is on foot walk taking pictures hes not hiding inside his condo hes trying to intimidate the drunks, but then again people react when there being photograpth and stuff i know i will. The police dont really care about the drunks but thats because they dont live here and its not only the drunks in Milwaukee Ave theres a buch of gangbangers out there to selling drugs and im sure there number one customers are the drunks when i walk by there i see peope shooting up heroin in the sidewalk, smoking crack in the alleys, and sniffing cocaine in the middle of the street. Its horrible to see this stuff happening we cant stop it but we can slow it down if we try but a lot of people in Logan Square dont care the ones that do care are minimal not enougth people. I lived in Logan Square for three months and hated it gunshots drug deals gangbangers out everyday it was a nigthmare, i moved away to a better place in the southside not all of it is bad theres a lot of good places way better and safer than Logan Square. I also noticed when i lived there that alot of outsiders come to Logan to buy drugs and some of them go inside the vacant homes to get high i called the police when i saw this happening but they either never came or just passed by twenty guys in the corner and they dont stop and check them. All this happens in our hood and none of it gets reported in the media they cover it up all the time once in a while they a do a short article about the shootings but that isnt enougth.
Timmy for Mayor! We love you keep up the good work.
Hey Diego. I agree 100% with you that this a way worser area than Uptown. Yeah, Uptown has it's gang fights sometimes, but in some areas of this neighborhood, there are gang fights every damn day. I'm sick of it. I'm also sick of hearing about Uptown's problems all the time. And, you're right. The victim was trying to intimidate the drunks. But for a good reason. We have the worst drunk problem here than anywhere else in Chicago, I think. Yes, it is horrible to see this stuff happening, and like you said, a lot of people in the neighborhood don't care. And about the southside, you're right. I've been through it and there are areas over there that are better than here. It's a shame. I agree about the outsiders coming through here to get their drug supply and getting high in the vacant houses. I also agree that the media hardly reports anything for this neighborhood. This is a reason why I'm here. I am here to report what the media won't report.
Nobody, thanks! But I'd rather not get mixed up in politics.
those drunk have been there every since i can remember 20+ year there not leaving anytime soon makes no since lock them up they come out in a few hrs and do it again... & we don't have room in prison for people like theses & we cant simply pick them off and drop them off 100 miles away.
I live in the area of Diversey Ave. and Central Ave. This neighborhood is literally infested by homeless drunks. They get drunk all day! They are a nuisance. Pissing all over, beer bottles everywhere, garbage picking, making a mess, drunk in public, i can go on all day! If you call the police, the cops just push them on. The police don't even get out of the squad car. I can totally relate to the blog author (I follow this blog regularly). I have had run in's with these people and it's not nice. I'm offended when they approach me / my young children to ask for money for their liqueur. Great blog, and keep up the great work. Danny.
There are points to be taken from both views.
The real concern, however, is that there is a problem with drunks in that particular area, and these drunks harass those who live there, and make passage unsafe for those who do business in the area. I'm not sure what the reluctance is to clean up the problem, but I think more should be done. Publicizing the problem at least keeps it in the community forefront, and for that, we thank you, Timmy. Keeping pressure on the police and alderman is also important, especially pressure that addresses the businesses who sell liquor to intoxicated people. This neighborhood will never see the light of day if solutions to the drunken loiters are not sought.
as a rule, human beings define right and wrong as follows:
right = what they like/ what they want
wrong = what they don't like/ what they don't want
as the saying goes, 'birds of a feather flock together', ie., people with similar likes and dislikes, associate with each other, and avoid associating with those others whose likes and dislikes significantly differ from theirs.
thus, throughout human history, segregation is the primary, natural consequence of the 'birds of a feather' axiom.
a secondary consequence has been the attempts to compel adoption and assimilation, by those having a majority, upon those whose likes and dislikes differ significantly from said majority.
thus, timmy, you may choose to segregate yourself, from those whose likes and dislikes differ greatly from your likes and dislikes, or you may choose to attempt to force segregation upon same, or attempt to compel them to adopt your definitions of likes and dislikes, or attempt to persuade same to adopt and assimilate, or attempt to accept the fact that, short of everyone liking what you like and disliking what you dislike, you will, as long as you are alive and living in a place where there are those who don't like what you like and who don't dislike what you dislike, be burdened with the unpleasant task of learning to 'live and let live', or, as most city dwellers have learned, to 'mind your own business'.
understand, timmy, that the basis upon which right and wrong are defined determines the true nature of the individual human being doing the defining.
and that said definitions then affect the actions that the said individual chooses to take.
defining right and wrong based merely on your own likes and dislikes makes you no different than the drunks you seek to segregate out of your community.
Ok, WHO are you?? And who do you think you are??? It sounds like to me you're trying to tell me how to live my life. I'm not going to listen to you. I live my life how I want to. Nobody here is going to tell me how to live my life.
You know something? If someone has a nasty attitude, I don't associate with them, and that doesn't matter if they share my likes. And, also, vice versa. If I don't have the same likes as another person, but if they are kind to me and are respectful towards me, I will be their friend and what not.
I will tell you something about me. Even if I don't like someone's opinion on a particular issue, as long as they keep the respect and/or kindness to me, I won't get mad about it. People agree and disagree all the time. I know I disagree with a lot of people on a lot of things. But just because I do, I don't get cruel towards that person. I respect most people's opinions, even if I disagree. For example, there's a lot of things my readers on this blog say that I don't agree with necessarily, but you know what? I still respect that opinion.
I have friends who aren't into the things I'm into (I'm into blogging, traveling, riding CTA, improving the neighborhood), but yet, they are still my friends. You know why? We all treat each other with respect and kindness. So, I'd like to know this: if this "rule" applies to all humans, then why are you only calling me out on it?? You minus well call everyone else out on it, too.
I'm just an outsider for the most part because I keep to myself. I don't get involved in people's business, unless it interferes with my life, such as things that are plaguing the community, like the drunks. If they're drinking vodka out in the public, then proceed to vomit all over Milwaukee Avenue, that affects the quality of life for me. It also affects the quality of life for my neighbors, my family, my friends and this entire community, so I make it my business.
I'm not going to "mind my business" about drunks, gangs, etc. in this neighborhood any longer. I used to, but look where that's gotten this neighborhood. I've been here my whole life, and can honestly say this is the worst it has ever been.
Anonymous 3:56, WHAT can we do with them, then? They are affecting the quality of life in the neighborhood, what do we have to do? Certainly not just lay back and accept it, I'll say that.
Danny, first off, thanks for dropping by. I appreciate your visit to this blog, even though you don't live in this area. You're right about your area. It's infested with drunks, just like it is here. I hear the calls EVERYDAY for those drunks over there. We have the exact same problem here. Our two communities can totally relate to each other, I think. About the cops, unfortunately, pushing them off is the only thing they can do. If they actually do something about the drunks, they can get slapped with a lawsuit.
Pro, totally agreed. The drunks are really a problem over here. The problem has gotten to a point where it's unsafe for anyone to walk through the neighborhood. I can tell you what the reluctance is, but it's not from us CAPS members. We're doing everything in our power to try and get rid of these guys. The problem is that the Polish community protects them.
Anonymous (3:26 & 7:01), I'll give you an 'A' for grammar and spelling, but an 'F' for logic and substance. It seems you've woven an intricate web of utter BS.
Though Timmy's post about the attack was emotional, and he did offer us some insight into what he finds to be right or wrong in his eyes, what this matter comes down to is that there was a chain of events that led to someone being assaulted. And in this chain, there were a number of instances where our society's laws have been violated. And as Timmy pointed out; law enforcement and political leaders haven't really done much to curb these things from happening.
1) Liquor store selling alcohol to intoxicated patrons
2) Public intoxication
3) Loitering
4) Battery
It's may be the opinion of Timmy and some readers of his blog that all of this is just plain wrong, but it also comes down to the straight facts that some folks in the neighborhood are violating laws and little is being done to keep them from continuing to do so.
Anonymous, maybe in the society that you find to be all well and good, these instances are just a petty nuisance and all part of living in the city. Others may wish for a cleaner, safer, more friendly neighborhood where we can walk down the public way without being harassed by belligerent, intoxicated strangers with a predisposition for violent behavior.
I think Timmy's blog plays a great role in keeping people like us informed and involved in our community, so that we can continue to strive toward making our neighborhood a better place to live.
The internet is an immensely vast frontier, Anonymous. I'm sure you'll eventually find a blog where your ramblings offer something valuable to the discussion. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the place.
"I'm not going to listen to you. I live my life how I want to. Nobody here is going to tell me how to live my life."
which is exactly how the drunks you're trying to run out of your neighborhood feel.
it's a wonder that you and they don't get along better.
And we should get along ... why??? They're ruining this neighborhood, and they know it.
"And in this chain, there were a number of instances where our society's laws have been violated."
yes, indeed there were.
such as the caps 'member' provoking a hostile response from the individual said caps 'member' was rudely photographing.
and, since the narrative which timmy published repeatedly refers to said photographed individual as being intoxicated, and, thus, according to timmy, more prone to aggressive and violent behavior, it is even more apparent that said caps 'member' provoked what timmy so dramatically described as an 'attack', ie., said photographed individual attempted to grab the camera being welded by the caps 'member'.
"...but it also comes down to the straight facts that some folks in the neighborhood are violating laws and little is being done to keep them from continuing to do so."
and where do these laws come from?
they are created to apply the force and authority of law to compel compliance according to the majority's opinions of what is right, ie., what the majority likes, and of what is wrong, ie., what the majority does not like.
laws either prohibit or require.
the laws you have quoted:
"1) Liquor store selling alcohol to intoxicated patrons
2) Public intoxication
3) Loitering
4) Battery"
are all laws of prohibition, ie., what you must not do.
and what is prohibited here are those actions which the majority does not like.
that fact, that the majority has approved of, and supports, laws that prohibit behaviors and actions that said majority does not like, does not negate the basic principle that those whose actions and behaviors are not liked by the majority, are also human beings, whose own dislike of being prohibited from doing what they do like, is no different a motive than that expressed by the aforementioned majority's motive.
"Others may wish for a cleaner, safer, more friendly neighborhood where we can walk down the public way without being harassed by belligerent, intoxicated strangers with a predisposition for violent behavior."
the irony here is that, in your desire for having what you do like, you seek the assistance of individuals, other than yourselves, to apply the very harassment you don't like applied to you, under cover of law, to the individuals behaving/acting in a manner you do not like.
thus, you favor the 'live and let die' perspective over the 'live and let live' perspective, and think that, because you don't have to get your own hands dirty in said application, your perspective is, somehow, a righteous one.
small town thinking in a big city.
always amusing.
"And we should get along ... why??? They're ruining this neighborhood, and they know it.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:19:00 AM CDT"
how would you know that they know it?
how would you know much of anything that they know?
to you, they're just drunks, not human beings, such as yourself and your fellow caps members.
"And in this chain, there were a number of instances where our society's laws have been violated."
yes, including the actions of the caps 'member' who provoked, by attempting to photograph a fellow member of our society, without his permission, a reaction which, according to timmy, was the result of said individual's intoxicated condition.
"And as Timmy pointed out; law enforcement and political leaders haven't really done much to curb these things from happening.
1) Liquor store selling alcohol to intoxicated patrons
2) Public intoxication
3) Loitering
4) Battery"
laws either prohibit or require.
laws are made, theoretically, by the majority, via their elected legislative representatives, to either require what the majority likes or to prohibit what the majority does not like.
laws are enforced by those employed to impose said laws, and interpreted and adjudicated by those employed to interpret and adjudicate said laws.
the actions of the caps 'member' clearly provoked, in the intoxicated individual being photographed, the resulting sequence of events.
were this caps 'members' actions not prohibited by law?
"Others may wish for a cleaner, safer, more friendly neighborhood where we can walk down the public way without being harassed by belligerent, intoxicated strangers with a predisposition for violent behavior."
so, this desire for what you like relieves you of any responsibility to restrain your own, unintoxicated predisposition for surrogate violent behavior?
same person as 3:56 responding back....
i strongly believe that we need to be tougher on punishment & swifter acting like having these drunks on community services programs like cleaning up neighborhoods, & harsher tough fines/punishments
You're twisted, mr. anonymous. Seriously. I never said they weren't human beings. Of course they are. And, it's obvious. I'm not explaining myself to you.
Anonymous, you just want to hear what you want to hear, apparently. First of all, this drunk violated this neighborhood and the CAPS member by rudely drinking on the public way. Second, don't sit here and talk about this CAPS member. He does a whole lot more work than you and anyone else here ever would do to get rid of this problem. And, how the hell am I being dramatic??? I am just describing what a citizen reported to me, dammit!! I WAS NOT ON SCENE! Can you read that?!?
Benjamin, thanks for dropping by. Yes, I admit my post was emotional, but this person is also a friend of mine. Well, then again, I would gotten emotional whether I knew the person or not. I agree that we do have people in this neighborhood who are getting nothing done to them for breaking laws. I think a lot of us here are asking for what you pointed out, a cleaner, safer and more friendly neighborhood. There is no harm in that, either. Who doesn't want a safe live?
Anonymous 3:56/2:17, I can agree with that. That sounds like a good idea, actually.
Wow. I haven't been on here in a couple of days. I can't believe this guy. Timmy, don't let people like this get you down. These kind of people sit on their computers behind the cover of anonymity and blast people just for the sake of making themselves feel good. Anonymous could have sufficed to say the first five lines of his original post and the point would have been taken. Anything beyond that is just a personal attack towards you and completely uncalled for.
As always, keep up the good work.
Talk to ya later
To end the drunken nonsense you have to close those liquor stores. Also stop folks from feeling sorry for the bums and giving them money.(which buys booze) Now I've seen churches out there late at night feeding these bums. Remember, bums are like pigeons, if you feed them more will come.
JCON, thanks for the comment. I agree that people like this anonymous person do that. These are hateful people who have to do this sort of thing to make themselves feel good. I also agree that the first five lines would have been good. The point would have been taken.
Anonymous 9:10, we are proposing on doing that, if these liquor stores do not follow the instructions of the LCC (Liquor Control Commission). And, it looks like we probably will end up doing this, anyway. I agree that people, including the churches, need to stop feeding these bums and feeling sorry for them.
Thanks for your work Timmy.
"Remember, bums are like pigeons, if you feed them more will come.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:10:00 AM CDT"
"I agree that people, including the churches, need to stop feeding these bums and feeling sorry for them.
Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:55:00 AM CDT"
Christ would be so very proud of you two fellows.
Anonymous 4:39, we're supposed to feel sorry for them and provide them shelter, food, etc., so they can turn around and DRINK again??? You know what? I believe in Christ and the bible, but I feel that they're sinning too by taking the services to only go back out on the street to drink, loiter, harass people, etc. I'm willing to help out a homeless person, and I fully support the churches feeding them, if I know they're going to get some help. If they don't want help and want to keep living their life the way they are, then they don't deserve the services. God, please forgive me...
"If they don't want help and want to keep living their life the way they are, then they don't deserve the services. God, please forgive me...
Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:58:00 PM CDT"
so, if those receiving help from the various churches don't choose to stop doing what you don't like them doing, then they can go to hell, according to the wisdom and judgment of timmy?
To 'Anonymous' who left the first comment:
What is your point? Do you believe it is okay for these people to drink in public? But not okay for someone to take a picture of them doing so?
Those people have given up their right to privacy by blatantly breaking the law in public. They have no more right to attack someone taking their picture, just as one of us would have no right to go physically attack them for drinking in public.
It's people like you who won't do anything to remedy a situation like this but are absolutely ready to bitch when someone else does. Why is that? Have you had a hard life and needed to go get drunk on the street because of it? Is that why you apparently 'get' these people, and why you assume that Timmy and his 'meager following' don't?
And please, tell us, so we can learn how to think like people in the 'big city': What do YOU do when you see people breaking the law? What do you do when you see homeless people, for that matter? Do you go have a conversation with them so you can understand what it's like 'in their shoes', as you say? Do you give them information on where they can go for help? Do you volunteer at shelters and places that provide assistance to our homeless and jobless?
Or do you just ignore them? 'Let live and die', as I believe you say in one of your follow-up posts? Go pray for them, so Christ is proud of you?
I typically find that people like you are happy to bitch, but seldom get off their asses and do something about it. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I do of course notice that you don't offer any alternative solutions to the actions CAPS have taken in your comment. Just a list of grievances.
Timmy has a right to post his opinion and his side of the story. At least he's doing something about it.
Perhaps YOU should consider that before your self-righteous little rants about how to make the world a better place, grasshopper.
Timmy - thank you for your work.
Never said that, 4:36. I'll let God be the judge of that. But I do have a right to my opinion, especially since I'm the one running this blog and the only person around here informing your sorry ass and everyone else here about crime in our community. Stop putting words in my mouth.
"What is your point? Do you believe it is okay for these people to drink in public? But not okay for someone to take a picture of them doing so?"
my points:
1. I mind my own business.
2. unless 'these people' are trespassing upon my property, they are free, as far as I'm concerned, to drink whatever they please upon the public way.
3. the taking of pictures is fine, as long as it is not done in a provocative manner, ie., the manner in which it appears to be the case with timmy's caps member buddy.
4. as I've been following this blog for some time now, I've noticed an increasing tendency, by timmy, and his cheerleaders, to become more intolerant of more and more petty, mickey mouse bullshit 'offenses' being committed by those residents of timmy's neighborhood whose behaviors timmy doesn't approve of.
I can guarantee that the police officers that have to deal with these ever increasing, petty mickey mouse complaints, have far more serious events to attend to and that, were timmy, and his cheerleaders, to pull their heads out of their asses, he, and they, would be amazed at what they would see.
5. furthermore, this ever increasing petty intolerance holds the potential for increasing the very behaviors timmy, and his cheerleaders, purport to be seeking to diminish.
"And please, tell us, so we can learn how to think like people in the 'big city':....."
sure, why not:
1. I mind my own business.
2. I don't presume, other than the aforementioned trespassing upon my property, that I have a right to interfere in the lives of my neighbors, unless such interference is unavoidably necessary, ie., actual violence being perpetrated upon an obviously weaker individual, by an obviously stronger individual, and even then, it depends upon my own assessment of the specific circumstances.
3. In general, I call the police, if and when I believe calling the police is warranted.
4. I do not presume to define what others choose to do with their lives, or to themselves, as if what I find is right for me is the same as what is right for everyone else. that is what 'live and let live' means.
5. if, as it appears, you believe in 'you are your brothers keeper' and 'love thy neighbor as thyself', why, then, is it clearly the sentiment of timmy, yourself, and the other, few, timmy cheerleaders, that these 'drunks' are mere neighborhood 'pests', akin to 'pigeons', as one commenter put it, to be driven from your territory, like alley rats?
have any of you timmy cheerleaders ever considered sitting down with these 'drunks' and having a drink with them, engaging in friendly conversation with them, talking to them, as if you consider them to be fellow human beings, and not down at them, as merely 'pests' whom you want only to be rid of? or as 'pathetic' creatures, by virtue of their behaviors, of which you so strongly disapprove?
making the world a better place takes more effort than merely driving those whose behaviors you disapprove of out of your chosen territory.
Most of these bums are illegal aliens. How about deporting them?
Yeah, anonymous, we get the point. You don't give a damn about improving the neighborhood. The drunks' behavior is perfectly fine to you. You know, you're enabling all of the criminal activity in this neighborhood by ignoring it and minding your own business. I used to mind my own business, and it got worse because of that. I'm now fighting to take this neighborhood back.
Let me ask you something. What's the reason you're following this blog? Honestly. I want to know, because I have reason to believe that you do not follow it to be informed, nor to help the community be a better place.
I'm going to tell you the behaviors I don't like and tolerate in the neighborhood:
- Drunks publicly drinking. This leads up to them passing out, blocking sidewalks, being violent, etc.
- Gangbangers doing what they do.
- Large groups hanging on the corners.
- Drug sales
That's it. Just four things. I don't care about loud music, permit parking, the small stuff. What I care about is the actual crime. Batteries, robberies, shootings, assaults, etc. What I care about is the amount of crime and disorder in the neighborhood. By the way, NONE of the "offenses" that I don't tolerate are bullshit. Not a single one. If I'm not tolerant of something going on in the community, it's gotta be big. If it's a small issue, like music or parking, I don't really want to hear about it. I don't care for it. Those things have never been nor ever will be a concern to me.
Regarding the police, EXCUSE YOU??? I KNOW that the officers have to deal with serious complaints. I'm not stupid. This is why I only call or complain when something big happens. Like this "petty" attack. I'm complaining about it because it was battery, and someone (yes, even the drunk) could've gotten injured. Incidents like this make me angry because it is a complete shame we're allowing this behavior to occur in this community. And, about the police, don't you think I know what they go through?? I have a police scanner, I think I'm pretty aware of what they have to go through. The petty bullshit calls (having a problem with your 8 year old child, the cashier not giving you back your change, etc.), the foot chases, gunshots, fights, etc. To tell you the truth, I hardly ever call the police. I only call for major things, like gangbangers hanging out and stuff, gunshots, and the drunks if they're passed out on the sidewalk or are violent.
You know why I call the police on the drunks when they're passed out? I call because I want the police to check on them to see if they're ok. If not, they can call the paramedics and have the drunk taken to the hospital. I call because I don't want the drunks to start vomiting on theirselves, because they will start choking. So, I think I do care about the drunks to an extent.
Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. Especially by saying that I call the drunks names like that. I believe that, no matter how bad their behavior is, they are humans. I don't believe they are pests. Having said that,
I'd like to help the drunks, but you know something? The ones over here DO NOT WANT HELP. They've said that. They want to keep up this life they are living.
Sitting down and being friendly with them when they're engaging in criminal behavior is just wrong, though, in my opinion. It's enabling them and you're just as much as a criminal as them if you're enabling them.
part 1
"Let me ask you something. What's the reason you're following this blog? Honestly. I want to know, because I have reason to believe that you do not follow it to be informed, nor to help the community be a better place."
you crossed a line with this particular post.
your caps member buddy, by rudely photographing this man, which, to this man, was tantamount to being accosted, escalated the hostilities that both this man pictured, and your caps member buddy, obviously feel towards each other.
the man pictured is hostile to your caps member buddy because he, the man pictured, wants to continue to do what he wants to do, and doesn't want anyone telling him he must stop.
your caps member buddy is hostile to the man pictured because he, your caps member buddy, wants this man to stop doing what he, this man, doesn't want to stop doing.
the man pictured feels he has a right to do what he does, when and where he does it.
your caps member buddy feels he has the right to do something, in this instance by taking a photograph, to stop the man pictured from continuing to do what your caps member buddy does not want him to continue to do.
you, timmy, concur with your caps member buddy's efforts to do this particular something to try and stop the pictured man from continuing to do what he wants to do.
the pictured man has his reasons and motives for doing the things he does.
you and your caps member buddy have your reasons for trying to do some things to stop the pictured man from doing the things he does not want to stop doing.
in a few of your responses to my original post, you stated:
"...we may as well let these drunks know we're noticing them. We're not going to let them get away with what they're doing."
and
"...it's time to take drastic measures to get them out,..."
and
"I don't even think you read this post thoroughly. If you did, you would see the CAPS member was taking pictures because they were instructed to at that LCC meeting. Those people need documentation of the drunk behavior in the neighborhood, which includes taking pictures."
and
"And we should get along ... why??? They're ruining this neighborhood, and they know it."
and
"I'm now fighting to take this neighborhood back."
and a few from your responses to other posters:
"The drunks are really a problem over here....... We're doing everything in our power to try and get rid of these guys. The problem is that the Polish community protects them."
and
"The victim was trying to intimidate the drunks. But for a good reason."
the problem here, timmy, is a thing called 'escalation'.
you may think that escalation of hostilities will accomplish your goal of "...improving the neighborhood.".
tbc.....
part 2
you, and your caps buddies should really have a heart to heart talk with a copper, or two or three, who are willing to tell you the facts of life, sans the usual department smoke and mirrors/ caps baby food.
unless you and your pals have the stones to do what cops have the stones to do, namely, if necessary, and, thus, lawful, to kill another human being, your approving, in this particular post, of your caps member buddy's "...trying to intimidate the drunks." may well contribute to a result that you, and he, and any other of your cheerleaders, are ill suited to deal with.
cops know what constitutes the use of lawful violence.
cops, as a rule, have the stones to end a human life when necessary and lawful.
this particular post takes you, and your supporters, perilously close to thinking and feeling that you can take liberties of action which you have no authority, experience, judgment or wisdom to be taking.
take all the clandestine pics you want, preferably of those already intoxicated individuals, you so consistently refer to as 'drunks', being sold liquor in clear violation of the rules and regulations under which the liquor store you named must adhere to, but, unless you and your buddies truly, and mistakenly, believe that you have the law on your side when you are "...trying to intimidate the drunks.", avoid advocating, or engaging in, an escalation of hostilities.
since you, timmy, and your entourage, seem determined to accomplish your goals with little to no interest in doing so in ways other than engaging in hostilities, at least temper your tempers with common sense.
Anonymous 7:37, we should. Some of the cops I know would support this move.
Anonymous who's made almost all comments, you didn't even answer my question. I'm laughing. You're too funny. Let me respond to you for one last time. You're right, I do think escalation is the only way to take this neighborhood back. I've been too nice. No more nice. It's gotten us nowhere.
About talking with coppers, I've talked with them, "heart to heart". In fact, I've talked with about 10 cops on one single day. It was at an outdoor police roll call. I know how they feel about these things. Some are divided about it. Some of the cops I talked to think we're over reacting, which isn't true (if anything, they're under reacting), but most of the cops I spoke with support our efforts. They can't really do anything about the behavior from the drunks, so they are glad the citizens around here are stepping up.
You're going too far with this "stones" talk. Never in a million years would I kill a drunk, and I highly doubt any of my fellow CAPS members would.
With that, I'm done. This post is closed to any new comments. I'm not taking this disrespect towards me any longer. My blog, my rules. And, think what you want to think about me and the others. At least we're fixing the problem. As long as it dies down, don't worry about how we do it.
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